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The short answer to the question is, with great care!

I am reminded of so many things that Paul said, particularly in his letter to Timothy. Even then he foresaw a time when people would be lovers of their own selves...heady...highminded". He also warned Timothy of the time when people would not endure sound doctrine [Let's add the term discipline].

In today's litious society in America, ministers have to be as careful as professionals in other disciplinees, unless they find themselves in court being sued. And that is happening on a frequent basis.

Even the prophet Ezekiel was told that he was being sent to a hard-headed and stiff-necked people of whom God said, that they are not going to even listen to you.

I heard a comedian the other night say that someone went into the confessional and told the Priest, okay you first. There has been a certain loss of respect for both Protestant and Cahtolic ministers.

Having said all that, the word says that my people know my voice. I believe that a true follower will accept discipline, even if it takes a day or two for it to sink in that he is supposed to listen to God's servant. I will submit an example in the future.

Peace & Grace,
Rev. C. Solomon

I don't believe the "D" word even exists in the church today. Pastors/Clergy are so conscious of the numbers in the pew, the amount of money in the plate and what building project is next. It seems more important to keep the pews full than to actually build relationships with people to even know that discipline should be administered. It usually reaches the pastor/leadership by hushed tones and rumors.

When it is decided that discipline will be administered, it is not handled biblically but ruthlessly worldly. Very few people check the facts and seek out witnesses. Even in the world, you get to face your accuser and have someone defend the allegations on the table.

The truth of one person can not with stand the agreed upon truth of many. We usually make things easier on ourselves by chastising or removing the one from the situation.

Where is church discipline today? Not in the church. Where is Christ’s real church today? Hopefully, it is in each individual person and not a building.

I promised an example of an experience that I had before, which I had had almost forgotten-

I was a young pastor of two years when a new female member of my church, who recently relocated from Kansas City, MO, some years ago, became a member and a real problem at our church.

Upon her arrival, she appeared to be wonderfully zealous for the Lord. However, it was not too long after her arrival that she began to foment unrest and to sow seeds of unrest among the membership. Many were initially awed by and drawn to her at first, because of a perceived spiritual gift and her apparent knowledge and zeal for the Lord.

Factually, she was a feminist, with a religious, rebellious and fanatical spirit mixed with more than a bit of mysticism. And we know what the scriptures says about rebellion and witchcraft, they are alike. She had the true Spirit of Python.

She claimed to be one who possessed spiritual gifts, however, the Elders and I, who were not against spiritual gifts; recognized that something was very wrong. Her gifts were more like the the woman of divination in scripture, that persecuted the Apostle Paul. [Wolfgang Lederer, MD, touches on the issue of women and spiritual gifts in his book, "The Fear of Women"].

Our attempts to meet with her and talk civilly, failed. Factually, she told me before the Elders, that, "she did not care what I had to say or what anyone else had to say", for God was working with her (the implication of course was that he was working exclusively with her and not with the rest of us). We tried to entreat her again, however, she was as vulgar then as she had been before.

An investigation confirmed my suspicions, i.e., that she had a familiar spirit and had practiced witchcraft before. She grew up in the Bible belt in an area and a church where among other things, spiritism (confused apparently with spirituality) was highly valued. I found out that two to three generations of women in her family, had studied witchcraft and some had practiced it. One member of the family tried to convince me that one needed to learn witchcraft in order to understand the spirit world, in order to be more effective for God.

I always use the Bible with people, so I referred to the books of Acts, where Paul had the Jews to burn all of their magic books. I also explained the words of Jesus, about casting out Satan with the finger of God. We were able to recover this family-member and she remains faithful to this day.

Her sister however, had confused the use of witchcraft with God given spiritual gifts. Again, Jesus said, "if I cast out Satan with the finger of God...". However, she never understood this and she would not be entreated. Her spirit guide and immersion into the occult was deeply entrenched; it appeared to be as a lover to her, and she was a single woman.

We decided and asked her to leave, given that she would not receive discipline, repent or honor leadership. With anger she complied, unfortunately she moved on and began to stir up trouble in several other churches in the region.

In most churches today and given the manner in which churches are structured today, I have observed that the Board and members of the flock discipline the Pastor far more than it happens the other way around. Pastors are being forced to spend to much of their time trying to please the Board or the flock (sometimes carnal), rather than pleasing God. And believe me I understand why, for pastors have to eat too (-: If Paul or Peter had been with us today and pastored churches, I am certain that they would have been fired by their congregations.

Rev. C. Solomon

I thought this was a great article!

Roy Thomas

I agree that more churches today should follow the biblical model of discipline instead of trying to avoid conflict to keep numbers in the pews.

How about the flipside of discipline when the congregation has issues with the senior pastor? We are a PCUSA with we have a session of elders and deacons, but our senior pastor has such firm control over the session (and every other committee)that everyone just turns the other cheek and ignores the dysfunction and damage that is being done to good people (members and staff). It's very sad and we feel very trapped and helpless.

How do churches handle situations like this when certain people are willing to look the other way to avoid the confrontation?

Perhaps you can appeal to your local presbytery or synod. No pastor is supposed to run the church. That's why the apostolic directive to Timothy was to "Appoint elder*s* [plurality of men who hold their gospel responsibility with a deadly seriousness] in every town"--so that situations like this might not occur. I'd also consider replacing the present body of elders, since they obviously aren't spiritually discerning enough (and aren't courageous enough) to stand up to this maverick. John Wayne sold a lot of movie tickets but would have made a lousy minister of the Gospel. You rarely go wrong in asking for help.

Food for thought.

Rev. Reagan Marsh